Scripture reference: Galatians 3:18 (NKJV); Matthew 6:33 (NKJV)
Pastor John:
Praise the Lord. Did you enjoy this first session this morning? Amen. Amen. Amen. Hallelujah. Praise the Lord. Glory. Yes. Yes. I want to know why you don’t do this when I’m preaching. Hallelujah. Well, we’re going to start off this next session with another video. Another interview. Enjoy.
[Pastor John interviewing Sean Caveney]
Pastor John:
Okay. The interview that I’m having with Sean Caveney today. Welcome, Sean.
Sean:
Thanks, Pastor John.
Pastor John:
It’s wonderful to have Sean with us. Sean and his family, Di, his wife, and his family have been with us all of their lives. The kids’ lives anyway. For them, they’ve been with us 21 years. And so, this is probably long overdue. But it’s time now. And so, thank you, Sean, for being here. I appreciate it.
Sean:
Pleasure, Pastor John. I’m looking forward to it.
Pastor John:
Yeah, it’s going to be good.
Sean:
I’ve seen you do this many times and it’s nice to do it with you.
Pastor John:
And now it’s you on that side.
Sean:
And thank goodness, I’ve done that Pastor John. And part of it also was to be an example to my boys. And also, getting tired of living half in the world, half in the Body.
Pastor John:
It’s exhausting actually.
Sean:
You’re not fulfilled in either Pastor John? And it almost got to a stage, I would say, six, seven years ago, maybe even longer where it was a case of – it’s enough, right? You’ve got to go full tilt. You’ve got to live by faith. You got to give everything to God. And that was a huge change for me, Pastor John. Significant change.
Where that decision, that realisation is that you’re not fulfilled in either and it’s a continuous struggle in both. And it’s time to actually make the decision of doing this properly. When I say doing properly, of just going all out for God. All in, all in, Father. And what a change, Pastor John. Not without, it’s not without its challenges.
Pastor John:
Oh, yeah, for sure.
Sean:
But we fight the good fight of faith. It is a fight but it is good because we win.
But I was thinking, why am I here today? I need to encourage people and just share some of my experiences.
Pastor John:
Exactly. Absolutely.
Sean:
I’m going to go there, Pastor John.
Pastor John:
Go for it.
Sean:
So, for me, the biggest realisation was that thank goodness, I had the revelation of tithing. And I had that in my first paycheck, in February 1998. Tithing, as well as offerings, but offerings more with helping people, NGO mindset, etc, as opposed to love. And as opposed to sharing the gospel. And as I’ve learned, you know, you can do a lot more than sharing the gospel than actually just feeding someone, etc. Terumah at that stage wasn’t an option, but I’ll touch on that, Pastor John. So that revelation has always been with me and always been something that I’ve been taught and I thank God for that.
Pastor John:
And despite all of the callings, and giftings that God gave you, the principle of doing the Word has been a foundation anchor in your life, right Sean?
Sean:
Absolutely, anchor foundation, but not so much a revelation. Because about seven years ago, Pastor John, I was sitting there and I was saying, “Look at this wealth I’m accumulating.” And if the institution where I work if the share price goes to this, I can be worth this, I can be worth this, I can be worth this. And all my spreadsheets of saying this is what I’m going to be worth… Of course I do tithes of course I do offerings, but no revelation that I live by faith, Pastor John. And it was a total – I live by works. And I put my trust in the institution, which is a wonderful institution. But it was not living by faith, Pastor John. And I always looked at the woman who gave two pennies and the widow and how Jesus said, you know, what she’s done is incredible. And it was almost a realisation for me, that you’re not living by faith, Sean. You know, you think you’re quite pious and you’re quite spiritual…
Pastor John:
Yes, I’ve been a tither. Always given stuff and…
Sean:
Correct. But it’s almost a case of, if I’m worth this and defining my worth by my balance sheet, then I can do this.
Pastor John:
That’s so good, Sean.
Sean:
Quite sad though, Pastor John. I mean, very sad until there was an actual thing of note: throw your lot in here with Jesus, trust Jesus, go this route, be part of an institution and create wealth but have a purpose with it, Pastor John. And if I may say, the way that I’m talking sounds like I’ve got it waxed and I don’t, Pastor John. It’s a daily journey, a daily, daily struggle. But it’s a struggle that’s quite easy, Pastor John if I’m spiritual. If my relationship with Jesus is there, if I’m with Jesus every day – it’s easy.
Pastor John:
It becomes much easier to make those choices, right Sean? But, say however you want to participate in this conversation, Sean. But in the institution, there’s this continuous, even though now you live it much easier, much more easily. Because you’ve made that decision. I’m all in. So, it’s easier now. But still, you live with all of those voices. All of that is information, all of that knowledge every day. And so, I guess that’s part of why you still struggle. It’s because you’re involved in it. And you. I mean, there’s no way around it. Just got to be more in the Word. And the more you are in the Word, the better it will become.
Sean:
But what a wonderful place to be, Pastor John, if you can be spiritually strong and be the difference. So you say, faith is not a formula, it’s a relationship. One hundred percent. But I have a little acronym or formula that I say every day. If I may share with you, please. So every day, as you’ve taught us, is what your purpose is today? Now my purpose is not to go make money today, right? My purpose is to be a Christian. What’s the purpose point of being a Christian? Is to be spiritual. What’s the point of being spiritual? Is to bring heaven down to earth? And what does that mean for me, Pastor John, practically on a Monday morning? What does that mean? That means that in every meeting I’m in, you just honour; you serve; you love your clients; you honour; serve; love your colleagues, and you just share the love of Christ and you just be an influence and that gives purpose for the day.
Pastor John:
Amen.
Sean:
If I can continue?
Pastor John:
Amen go for it! You’re preaching good Sean.
Sean:
Then the little acronym is PCGA. C stands for calling. Where am I called to Pastor John? I am called to you and I am called to this ecclesia. And that’s very important. Because all of a sudden, you start looking and you start thinking, why don’t I do this or try this? That’s not what I’m called to, Pastor John. The most important thing then is the next one, G, for gifting. God has given me certain gifts, that I’m able to do and operate in. The big thing is – it’s from Jesus. Because Pastor John I’ve seen over many years, I start getting arrogant I start getting proudful for I think I can do this, I can do that. As you’ve always said, we can’t even breathe without Jesus. Yeah. And that’s humbling… that I cannot operate on a daily basis in my job without Jesus.
Pastor John:
That just centres you and grounds you, right?
Sean:
And it gives you the ability and where to seek help. And you know, Pastor John, there’s been two or three things, that through the Holy Spirit, I’ve been able to introduce in my work that has changed the work. And I know it’s totally through the Holy Spirit, total ideas that came from the Holy Spirit. So, by recognising every day that it’s got nothing to do with me, it’s through Jesus that I can do stuff. And then the last point is point A, Pastor John, is my assignment. And my assignment at this point in time is to create finance for the body. And that’s quite a nice purpose to have. To be creating finance and have a purpose. An assignment to bring money for the Kingdom.
Pastor John:
Yes.
Sean:
Big shift from where I was six, seven years ago, where it was creating money from my balance sheet. And for me, Pastor John with an arrogance that, “Look at me” As opposed to humility now that I’m nothing, this is through Christ.
Pastor John:
Right. What a joy for me to listen to you, Sean. Because really, I mean, it’s filled with the life of God, it’s filled with all of the things that God has given us, you know.
Sean:
But from my side Pastor John, it’s humility in it because it’s a daily walk. It’s certainly not saying, I’ve got this waxed. Funny enough, my colleagues at work will say, “Sean, go pray you are full of nonsense today.” And you can see it.
Pastor John:
So they have a recognition of it…
Sean:
Totally.
Pastor John:
…of that place that God occupies in your life?
Sean:
I’ve put it out there with them. My purpose is to be a Christian to be spiritual. So they know when you’re not fulfilling your purpose. I’m accountable to them on it, Pastor John.
Pastor John:
That’s good.
Sean:
But you can be the light.
Pastor John:
Yes.
Sean:
You can do that but you have to build your faith daily I found, Pastor John otherwise again, you have half your foot in the world half your foot and you’re gonna get…
Pastor John:
You get chewed up and spit out if you do that happens. Yeah. Sean, the thing that’s really blessed me from what you were saying now is that the more that you operate in your gift is, you know, and your assignment, obviously, God’s going to continue to bless you and increase you, because now He has a dedicated vessel. And so the blessing of that is, is that as God increases you, you now no longer have any guilt, or shame, or any kind of wrong kind of thoughts about money, and what money can do. Because you know, actually, it’s a tool.
Sean:
Yes.
Pastor John:
And it’s a tool connected to your assignment.
Sean:
That’s right, Pastor John. It takes time to get to that point. But it’s really a tool to change and to make a difference. And I’m free.
Pastor John:
Yes.
Sean:
That’s the biggest part, Pastor John.
Pastor John:
Exactly – you’re free to just live the way that God has given you.
Sean:
I have got to believe and trust in the supernatural ability of God and sowing seed into that. And the work I do actually says you must invest in the markets which I do and I believe in that, it is wisdom in that. But I’m free from having to rely on the economy,
Pastor John:
Right,
Sean:
And having to rely on what I see every day and what I tell my clients. Because I believe in Jesus, and I believe in God, and I believe the supernatural sign of that seed, Pastor John. I need no convincing on that. I know the truth, Pastor John, if I may say humbly, it doesn’t mean that I always live according to that truth. But I work towards it.
Pastor John:
Absolutely.
Sean:
Because I’ve seen in the last six, seven, ten years Pastor John, the freedom and the sowing of seed on that. And I’m not doing it to be blessed to get a blessing Pastor John, but the blessing has been immense. And the favour has been immense, that has come with it. And not blessing and favour on money. It’s not sow seed…
Pastor John:
It’s all on all components of your life. And if you could speak to them, and let’s say some of those people are, are coming into the church, but they don’t have the revelation that you have yet. How would you speak to their fear? How would you speak to their lack of purpose? And what kind of guidance would you give them?
Sean:
Yeah, I would just say, “Jump into Jesus. Jump in and trust, Pastor John and work it daily, daily, daily.” Because the fear that we see in the world is justified, If you look at the world at the moment,
Pastor John:
If that’s all you can see, it’s totally justified. For sure.
Sean:
So you need to work hard, you need to go for it. You need to put in more effort because you need to make x to be safe for you and your family. And that’s what people do. And I can totally understand it. The sad thing I’ve seen is that people destroy their lives by making x, and the Bible says that you will create wealth, etc. but with no sorrow. Okay? And then people create this and then they realized right, I actually am safe now because I have enough but they don’t have peace or joy.
Pastor John:
Well, thank you, Sean. I appreciate your time, and opening yourself up and being vulnerable and sharing all of that. And for those that are on the digital platform, I just want to say, “Blessings to you. May the peace of God come upon you. And I trust that what we have shared here, that these words will change your future, cause you to be more assignment based, and cause you to have a different perspective. And don’t feel like Sean and I are sitting here and we got it all sorted. Sean said that many times- we are on our own journey. However, this minister to you so that you can come on our journey. Come along, we’ll help you, we’ll always pray for you. Thank you for watching. Thank you for listening. God bless you.
(End of video interview)
[Pastor Sharon joyfully jumps up and down.] Well, I know how Sharon feels. Praise Jesus. Praise the Lord. Isn’t it good to hear the testimony of people’s lives and how, you know it is just this way when you receive a revelation? You have to work that revelation out into your life. Just because you have a revelation it doesn’t mean that every moment of every day, you fully are living out the revelation. You will find that the scripture says, “Do not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.”
You know the word trance means to cross over. So if you are not conformed to this world, but you’re crossing over by the renewing of your mind, that means it’s a daily journey. It doesn’t mean you wake up in the morning and your mind is now perfectly formed to a new revelation. The revelation is there now you have to live with your mind that’s connected to the revelation. So that’s how you get transformed. You’ve been crossing over in your formation.
And so when you are not conformed to this world, but you are transformed by the renewing of your mind, it says, “And you are now renewing your mind to live according to the new revelation that you have when you have that new mindset.” So your mindset should be, I have a whole new revelation that I live by. That’s where I’ve got to be. Amen. Okay.
I think God is really ministering to us and helping us over this weekend to change our minds about a few things. We are crossing over with our mindset, aren’t we? Now, for many years, I’ve been talking about worldview. And a worldview is the way that you view the world, it’s your view. It is possible to have a worldview that is so completely connected to someone else’s worldview, or other people’s worldview, that you don’t recognize that it’s no longer your worldview, that it’s someone else’s worldview that you are living by. Typically institutions are all about changing your worldview, to match what they want your worldview to be. So, if you are living in a system, almost always they will identify your worldview by your language. And your language will be revealed in your behaviour.
So, I don’t know if you’re aware of this, but just this week, the Supreme Court of America, American Supreme Court made a ruling. And the ruling was that affirmative action-based enrollment into college in America is illegal, it’s illegal. Affirmative action-based enrollment into universities and colleges in America is illegal, they deemed it to be unconstitutional. So, of course, there is a particular political persuasion in America that are all up in arms about it, because they want everything to be about affirmative action because they can progress and narrative of racism. Because if I can accuse you of racism, I can, I can determine whether you’re racist or not by how much you agree with my language. And your language will determine your worldview.
So, it’s the same thing in the spirit realm, your worldview is revealed by your language. So, who are you revealing your worldview to? Well, the first person you reveal, your world to is yourself. If your language is revealing your own personal worldview to yourself, then it should be a case of well, “Okay, my language.” I’m hearing my language, and it’s not… It’s not the same language that God is using. So, if you’re talking about money, and this conference is about money, the way that you speak about money is going to be revealed in your worldview of money.
So, if you just bear with me now I’m gonna get into law and grace in a minute. But if I’m talking about a worldview of money, and you hear me say this, which you won’t hear me say, but if you say, “I don’t have enough money for that;” what am I talking about? If I say about a particular project, I don’t have enough money for that, then I’m speaking a language and it says, “I don’t have enough.” Now, you might say, “But Pastor John, that’s such a small thing.” If you don’t have enough money for a particular project, you don’t have enough money for a particular project. Well, the answer is yes, I don’t have enough money right now. But that doesn’t mean to say I don’t have enough money. So, if I keep saying, “I don’t have enough money for this project,” then my words are reflecting my worldview about the project and about money, that it’s dependent on how much I have in the bank. So, I can’t go after a project because of what I have or don’t have in the bank.
Now, God says to me, “Okay, I want you to live in a worldview that’s My worldview.” Now, if God says, “I want you to have a go after a project,” how’s He going to fund it? So, how’s God gonna find it? Well, I don’t know; not yet, He will reveal it to me in due course. I’m not yet clear on it, but I do know that He will fund it. Now, if you’re God, and you’re sitting, and you’re talking about money or resources, and you’ve got a servant on the earth, that’s your son. And you tell him, “Hey, John, I want you to do this.” Are you guys gonna work with me on this this morning? (Ecclesia responding Yes, yes). Remember my Sunday message I’m a shepherd, hey? You must remember Sunday’s message I am your shepherd. I’m not after your money, I’m here to accomplish what God wants me to do. And I’m here, that if you if God lays it on your heart to work with us on any given thing that He wants to give money to you, He wants us to change our worldview. He wants us to change the way we see things, not because He needs our money. Okay.
So, if He says, “John, I want you to buy some things.” So, if you don’t know this, the house across the road here, the first house, we have bought it, we’re waiting for it to be transferred into the ministries hands, it’s done. There’s some, some transactions that need to take place because it was in an estate, and it has to come out of the estate. And there are some trustees in the estate that some paperwork has to be sorted out, but it’s done. In time to come, there will be more houses across the road. And I’m being vague about it because I don’t want the enemy to know what we’re doing and the word to get to other people what we’re doing. But it is quite possible that in the not-too-distant future, the whole block across the road might belong to us. Why not? Praise the Lord. Thank you, Empie. Amen.
And so and so I’m not just talking from a point of view well, “I think it’s a good idea.” I’m talking because we have got God-given stuff that we got to do to promote this kingdom Ecclesia. So, because we got to promote this kingdom, Ecclesia and what this Ecclesia has got to do, to build Education Center, to continue to grow Mixchange, to continue to grow Bible school, to continue to grow Holy Ghost conferences and seminars and things that we have to do as a ministry to increase our digital platform, to increase our capability and our capacity in line with Him, not in line with us. “John, I want you to do this.” “How you going to do it, John?” “God, how are we going to do it?” Uh? If I look at my bank account, then I gotta say, “I don’t move until my bank account changes”. No, I’m moving and then my bank account changes. But if I don’t obey God, then my bank account can’t change.
So one of the things that I did, deliberately by the leading of the Holy Spirit, we have a ministry that we connected to called Break Free Rehabilitation Center or Life Skill Center, then so when it came clear to me that we got a farm on the horizon, we got houses that we need to buy and things that we have to do. I said to Otto and Ernest, and Hein and a couple of guys and I said, “Go find out what Break Free needs because they’re always building something”. They need capacity for more addicts, for more people that need things in their lives and changes and all that stuff.
So they went across and they said, “Well, for a moment, we’ve got everything we need, but we are wanting to build a new church”. Building. What? What a coincidence. At the time I’m asking for what you need, they want to build a church on their property so they’ve got a place where all of their people that are on the property can go and worship together. So I said, “Give me a budget, how much is this church gonna cost?” So they gave me a budget. So we went and built the church. We went and built the church. And we did it in two days with MiXchange people.
Now let me tell you how powerful this is for the Mixchange people. They brought their skills, their energy, their capacity and their capability, and their energy to build a church. What are they exchanging their lives for? To believe, to walk with God in their whole life, their whole future. So they’re looking after God’s church, then God’s going to look after them, as the Church. God says to us as a ministry, “Go and help them build the church because you got buildings. You got stuff on farms because they’re church is on a farm that you need to have the money for.”
So we went with MiXchange, and we went with our money, and we went and built them a church. Well, so I just felt this week that we needed to find out where they’re at with the building project. Because they were, they still needed to finish the roof and some of the cladding and some of the stuff inside the building. So, found out that they’ve run short of money, and they haven’t got the money to fix the cladding, the wood cladding inside the church. And there’s still a portion of the roof that needs to have some internal stuff done and, and a few other things that they haven’t been able to finish.
So I said to, I said to Otto, I said, “Otto, tell him I want a budget.” He comes back to me, and the Pastor there says, “No, we don’t want to give you a budget, because you’ve already been such a big blessing to us that we don’t want to, we don’t want your money.” So what are you going to do to get money? They’re doing a fundraising exercise at the end of the month, next month, to raise money to finish the building. I told Otto, I said, “Phone him and tell him it’s not about whether he needs my money, it’s the fact that I need to sow a seed.” Because he’s trying to find a way to meet his need, meantime God’s already meeting his needs because I have to sow a seed. So if he wants to keep saying, “No, I don’t want your money,” then maybe God’s gonna speak to me at some point and say, “Well, don’t give him any more money.” But now, you know, I won’t let him get to that. I won’t. Because I understand that in his own value system and his revelation, where he’s at, this is the way he deals with people. So he would have to push me very hard to not do this. Hallelujah. Hallelujah.
But there is that, that is a minister that is, he’s really doing an amazing work. Works with the government, he gets people dropped off there, any hour of the day, any hour of the night, people that they, that are still under the complete influence of drugs, and they put them in a room and for days they’ve got to go through cold turkey and, and I mean, it’s a real calling to look after people like that. And, of course, part of the reason he’s there is because he was one of them. He was, he was such a bad addict, and he didn’t, there was no way he was going to survive. And so God saved his life. And then after he got saved and saved his life, he felt that God called him to actually save other people’s lives.
You know, when you’re in that desperate state with addiction, it’s a life and death matter. You know, a lot of people that come into our church building, it’s like, I’ll choose whether this is my church or not. And maybe I’ll come here if it suits my kind of vibe and my kind of culture, and it’s like a choice they can still make, but when you’re an addict and you’re really desperate, it’s a life and death matter. You know, then you’ve got to have people that are ready to go and walk the distance in that kind of scenario. Amen.
My point I was trying to make to you more than anything else is that our needs are met. Not because we have people meeting our needs, our needs are met because we sow seed. And our seed is in line with our words that we speak and because our words speak it, then our seed follows our words, and then God brings to us what we need. So you always have to be listening and watching for opportunities where God can allow you to put your money where He wants you to put your money so that you can be in the place where He can get something to you. That’s how the Kingdom of God works. That’s how you move away from His capacity and His capability. I mean, from your capacity and your capability to His. That’s how you do it. You’ve got to make a conscious choice, a conscious decision. Amen. Okay.
Galatians chapter 3 verse 10. The New King James Version says it this way, 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse, for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all the things which are written in the book of the law to do them.” (Galatians 3:10 NKJV) Now, this scripture says, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things.” And the Apostle Paul argues in other books as well, Romans in particular, he argues that if there’s one thing of the law that you haven’t accomplished, or you haven’t done, then it’s the same as all of the law, you’re guilty of not fulfilling any of the law because you’ve just broken one law. So, you can’t say I want to live by the law and then you only live by some laws that you think are good for you, and other laws. If you break one law, you are guilty of breaking all of the laws.
So that’s why when he writes the scripture, he says, 10 “Curse is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.” 11 But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, “for the just shall live by faith.” 12 Yet the law is not our faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.” (Galatians 3:10-12 NKJV) In other words, you can’t have a law that is based on “I’m living the law by my faith.” I’m living the law, because the law says, “That’s how I must live.” But if you live by faith, then you’re living in something that is far greater than the law. So then don’t be bound by the law.
13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree.” 14 That the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Holy Spirit through faith. I’m going to talk about that holistically in a few minutes, I’m going to just keep reading. 15 Brethren, I speak in the manner of men. Though it is only a man’s covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it. 16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed, who is Christ. 17 And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. 18 For if the inheritances of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise (Galatians 3:13-18 NKJV).
Okay? It’s quite a mouthful, that. But I want him to just begin to take us down this route, and I’ll conclude it over the period of the weekend. I want to just conclude it. God created a system. And His system was, “I’m gonna make man in My image in the image of God.” He made male and female. And when he made them, He said, “Here you are, you look like Me, talk like Me, be Me on the earth and all of this environment that you’re walking in, this is the environment I’ve given you to look like Me, to talk like Me, to behave like Me, in this environment.”
So then the devil comes into this environment and he deceives one of them to do something that they were against the will of God. The other one, made a decision which was Adam, to willfully relinquish his authority, he wasn’t deceived. He just agreed with the one that was deceived. So he relinquished his authority willingly, in order for them to go after a system that was offered to them. It was a system that was lower than the one that God wanted for them. When Abraham came into the world, there was no law established, there was just an order of a system that was still there. The order of the system was the order of a system that was established in the Garden of Eden. I don’t want to get too technical here today, or too theological here today. But just bear with me, as I say this to you. That when God put man and woman on the earth, Adam and Eve, He said, “Multiply, have authority and dominion over the earth, and behave like Me.” When He looked at the earth, and He saw that the earth was evil and corrupt, I will talk about the Tower of Babel and the whole story of Babel, I will talk about it probably tonight. But He said, “Here’s the system of blessing, dominion and multiplication.”
When Noah came back to earth, the first thing that God said to Noah was exactly what He said to Adam, “Multiply, increase and have dominion on the earth.” So when Noah came, Noah had sons, those sons had sons, and Abraham was born. Abraham entered into the God’s order of things, there was no law yet. He entered into God’s order. What’s that order? That order is; to live by your belief in the Most High God. Live by faith. Live by faith. When the law came, the law said, you must obey all the rituals of the law, even if you have faith in God, you must still live by the rituals of the law. Because only in the rituals of the law, can you find deliverance from sin. Why? Because blood needed to be shed whenever you broke one of the laws. So, now you have to depend on the shedding of blood to cover all of your misbehaviour. So, Jesus comes along, and He pays the price, His blood is shed, so that once and for all, He could pay all of our sins.
Now we are back to a God order system, not a legal system. We are back to a restored system that God initiated with Adam and Eve and with Abraham, we are in a God-ordered system, not a legal, law system. Now, if I bring it back closer home to you and me, then I have to say, we are in a place where the law is about performance. It’s about achievement. It’s about results.
The God order system is not about achievement, or about results. It’s about a Person. It’s about believing in Jesus. It’s about faith. When God made a covenant with Abraham, He made a covenant with Abraham in the order of the way He ordered things, not based on a law. That same covenant He made with Abraham is now our covenant because in Abraham we are the seed, as I just read, we are the seed of Abraham, according to what He promised Abraham that He would do through covenant, not through law.
“Why is this important to me, Pastor John, when you’re talking about law and covenant, and grace and all of these things?” Because the minute you look at money, as the system by which you will transact and you begin to love what money can do for you, you are under the law. Because your whole way of approaching money is based on I’ve got to do something to get something, my energy, my capacity, my capability will be rewarded. God says, “Give me your energy, your capability, and your capacity and build your walk with Me and then let Me show you what I can do for you.” He’s not wanting us to have less money, He’s not wanting us to have less things. He wants to show us all of His goodness but if we enter into this realm of financial liberty based on performance, we are already in a place where it’s about us.
So, when Jesus says in the book of Matthew, chapter six, 33 But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you (Matthew 6:33 NKJV). You’ve got to read the whole chapter before that to realize that He’s talking about stuff. It’s talking about what you eat, what you drink, what you wear. So He’s saying, seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, then all these things that you need to wear, all these things you need to eat, all these things you need for your life, I will give them to you besides. In other words, more than you can ask for, you will have, if you seek Him first.
Why is that important? Because earlier in the chapter, probably around verse 18, or 20, somewhere around there, He says, you cannot serve God and money, mammon, at the same time. You are either going to serve one or the other. Or you’re going to hate the one and love the other. You can’t do both at the same time. So this is why so many people are confused about money.
If I’m tithing, because it’s a law, I am unlikely to see the windows of heaven opened up on me and have continuous blessings poured out on me constantly. Because I’m tithing as an insurance policy. I’m not tithing because I’m honouring God. The one place of tithing is because I know it’s the right thing to do. The other way of tithing is because I’m honouring Him who has given me all things. One is a law-based principle the other is a relational-based principle.
So, in the Church, people that come into the Church come into a relationship with Jesus Christ, what’s happening to them? As they’re coming into a relationship with Jesus Christ, they are saying, “I have this freedom, where actually I can explore this relationship with God Almighty, I can explore all of these things that God has for me.” And then the Church begins to teach them about the rules of the Church. The rules of the Church are tithing, the rules of the Church are this, the rules of the Church are that.
Then they say, “But hold on a minute, my walk with God has started with a relationship and now you’re making my walk with God about rules.” So the Church is constantly saying, “Here are the rules you must do. If you do these rules, you will experience goodness.” That’s not what God said. God said, “If you believe in Jesus, you seek Him first and you seek His kingdom first all these things will be added to you.” That’s the only thing that matters, seeking Him.
So we are not a rules-based people. We are relational-based people. We have a relationship with Him. Come on. That’s why I’ve got to share that scripture about the law with you because the minute we make our walk with God, about do’s and don’ts, we cannot be an Ecclesia. Because the Ecclesia is about following the will of God not about keeping a set of rules. So, if we are making tithing a rule, then we are limiting God to the tithe. God says, “If you trust Me enough, and you honour Me with your life substance, you should be joyful in the tithe because that should be the beginning of all of the walk that you have with Us, is the tithe.” That’s just the beginning of your honour. It’s the minimum that you should consider doing out of your faith.
So, I mean, people around the world have different opinions about this and I’m not going to say one is right or wrong, but I’ve heard people say this; if you can’t tithe, well then, just give 2% or just give 4% or just give 6%, give what you can so that you can get used to giving so that you can achieve a level of 10% when you get there. Well, I would suggest to you that they are making tithing about money, not about faith or about honour. And so, my answer to that is; keep your money because you lack faith to tithe. Build your relationship in God while you keep your money. Because, while you’re building your relationship in God, He’s going to give you the faith to part with your money. Because tithing should be about faith and about honour, it shouldn’t be about rules – as the Church should not be about rules, it should be about grace.
So, what does the Church tolerate in the – here’s the word tolerate. I’ve been preaching about tolerance. So, we are not talking about tolerance, we’re talking about kindness and mercy and grace. We expect higher from each other. We expect living for God fully from each other. But, I’m not going to judge you because you are in a different space with you and God, so I’m not tolerating you, I’m showing God’s love towards you. Amen. And so, that, I can say, is the way that God is treating me. God is not tolerating me in my growth. God is showing His love towards me as I’m growing and He would say to me, “John, I see your heart. Your heart is completely towards Me, that you want to love Me, you want to serve Me, you want to go all in for Me. Your behaviour is not yet where your heart is and I’m giving you mercy and I’m giving you grace so that I empower you to lift up so your behaviour is in line with your heart.”
So, if God is treating me that way, how should I treat someone else differently? Why should I put a set of rules on someone when God is actually not telling me to live by rules? He’s telling me to live by the power that He’s given me to live free from rules and live in Him.
So, if I make my money about rules, then rules will dominate my money. But, if I make my money live with a mission… remember, I said money is a reflection of your capability, your capacity and your energy – if I take all of those things and submit those things to rules, then I’m only doing what the world system says I should do. It becomes another institution. But the minute I liberate my money and I say let my money be on a mission, let my money be based on what God’s capability, what God’s capacity and what His energy is and how I engage with Him, I’m liberating myself from one system and I’m giving myself freedom in God’s system and there are no limits in that one. No limits. No limits. Grace is a no-limit lifestyle. Law and rules are limiting lifestyle.
Come on. When I’m living in God, I don’t want to sin. When I’m living in this kind of grace, I don’t want to sin. I may sin, but I’m not wanting to sin. That’s what the Apostle Paul was talking about in the Book of Romans; woe is me, there’s one thing I want to do and then I find the thing I want to do, I don’t do it and the thing I don’t want to do, I find myself doing that thing. What’s he talking about? He’s talking about this conflict that’s in himself where the new creature wants to do the things that God wants him to do, whereas his old man is still doing old things that he shouldn’t be doing. But, he’s already free in grace that he can do everything that God wants him to do, he’s just got to get there yet. So, we expect each other to get there, but we don’t judge each other while we’re getting there. Hallelujah.
And so, that’s how God treats us with money; I’m blessing you, I’m giving you gifts, I’m giving you callings, I’m giving you capabilities, I’m giving you capacity. Come, let’s walk this journey together. Come, let’s go higher, let’s get more, let’s do this, let’s live free from a system, live by My system. Let Me show you what it’s like. Oh, you’re not there yet? I’m going to give you the power to get there. I’m going to give you My love. I’m going to show you, My love. I’m going to show you My goodness. I’m going to show you what My capacity and My capability is, so you can get there. Amen. Hallelujah. Praise Jesus. Praise Jesus. Praise Jesus.
Okay, I just want to share some things with you quickly, as I finish here. Let me tell you what joy it gives me to hear Hanna’s testimony and Sean’s testimony and what it is as a pastor to live with them, okay? When they are stepping into their calling and their gifting, it liberates me to see Christ working in them and as their gifting becomes more evident in the Church, it liberates all of us because their gifting’s working. So, must I praise them or must I praise God? I must praise God that He’s raised them. It’s not for me to praise them, it’s for me to praise God that He’s raised them. It’s also my glory and thanksgiving to God that they’re obedient in their raising up and as they’re raised up to do what they must do, it liberates all of us to do what we must do. That’s how the Body works. That’s how gifts and callings work.
When the Lord has got time for me this weekend, I’m going to talk about talents and money and gifts and all of that kind of stuff. We’ll get there. Have you gotten something out of this session today? Amen. Hallelujah. Praise the Lord. Won’t you stand with me, please? Thank You, Lord. Thank You, Lord. This [Pastor John’s timer] says I still have 18 minutes to preach, you know.
When we come back, we’re going to have Eric and Nikki talk to us this afternoon, so come with an expectant heart. Come ready to hear what God’s got for us. God’s raised their gifts for us to receive from their gifts. Amen. Hallelujah.
So, Father, I pray that whatever people are going to do and rest and eat and do whatever they are going to do now, they are blessed. Bless the food to their bodies. Bless the coffee to their bodies, as much as You can, and the chocolates and everything else they might eat, bless it to their bodies, do the best that You can, Father, in Jesus’ name. And may no weapon formed against them prosper through the food, or any other way, in Jesus’ name, amen.
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